High Court ordered BT, Sky, TalkTalk and Virgin to block Premier League stream servers

[trickpaul]

maybe. but wasting money on a VPN isn't gonna do jackshit in this case like I said earlier

I've known people struggle without a vpn then two mins later, running a vpn, perfect service. Some iptv providers are actively encouraging vpn use until they sort out with proxy servers to get around the blackouts

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[pabloescaban]

if the iptv servers are being ddos attacked, how is installing a vpn at the user's end going to acheive anything? - the football's being blocked on the way out, alledgedly, but again, if the severs were being ddos attacked, how come most, or all of the other channels they provide are fine? - the attack would bugger up the entire server.

 

[trickpaul]

if the iptv servers are being ddos attacked, how is installing a vpn at the user's end going to acheive anything? - the football's being blocked on the way out, alledgedly, but again, if the severs were being ddos attacked, how come most, or all of the other channels they provide are fine? - the attack would bugger up the entire server.

The way I understand it (which might be wrong) is that the sport streams are probably on different servers too other content

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[Speedygonzal]

What I'd like to know is, if the isp knew what you were downloading (this is what streaming is - data download, nothing more or less) and they could put a stop on it, how does anyone anywhere in the world ever manage to download illegal stuff? - I think we all know this is a crock of shite.
Also, if you have amazon prime or any one of dozens of other streaming services legitimately purchased in the UK, dothey can't-es it suddenly become unusable every Saturday and Sunday when football's on? - does it bollocks - you can stream Shawshank Redemption on Sunday as soon as Man Utd kick off and watch it uninterrrupted for 3 hours because you are watching it via your isp and they aren't blocking downloads at peak times, if they were, you wouldn't see 75% of it.
Looking at data only, how can any isp know whether you are watching Shawshank Redemption or MUFC V AVFC? - they can't, so don't waste money on VPN's and such likes

I know you are just asking a question, but I think there are some misconceptions in your question, and also in comments by others above what ISPs do, and the effectiveness of vpn.

ISPs know, but do not need to know what you are streaming to block streams/sites. If you are in uk and you do not believe me, and if you have no circumventing scheme in place, all you need to do is to enter http://putlocker.co into your browser and see what you get.

The first way an ISP can block sites, is simply to modify a library entry in their DNS server. When you enter a web address (either as a url or ip address), you are typically asking your ISP to route your request to the target. So all they need to do, is to direct such entries to the page at http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk/ you likely just saw.

Think about it, if you can create a free account here and elsewhere to get, say an iptv sub or free trial in 5 minutes, so can an ISP. All the ISP then needs to do is to include the relevant addresses in the banned list in their library, either at 3pm for 2 hours for certain sites, or forever.

If DNS filtering is the only thing an ISP does, it might be possible to circumvent it by using a public/alternative DNS server, and/or proxies. However DNS block is not all that an ISP or government institution etc. can do. You might already have a browser add-on or software on your device that suffers "DNS leak". Packet sniffing, e.g., can also be deployed, because the same live or movie stream (perhaps without a time-based watermark legitimate providers have introduced in theirs) may be duplicated and sold/distributed by "resellers" - if one such stream can be identified, so can all the streams/sites with duplicates.

However, packet sniffing only works if a stream is not encrypted. Here is where vpn comes in - when you are using vpn, not only would you not be using your ISP's DNS server, data would also be travelling in a secured tunnel between the machine you have vpn on (e.g. your vpn router) and your vpn provider (which has their own infrastructure, and can be in Timbuktu). With vpn, your ISP has zero visibility of your data consumption except quantity because data in the virtual tunnel is encrypted, hopefully with a strong protocol and key, that will take even the nsa significant time to decrypt.

This is why certain governments/ministers are actioning/musing a ban on or "registering" vpn's...

I do not know for sure, but I would take "ddos attacks on servers" being the reason for relevant sites' relevant inaccessibility with a large lump of salt, if only because there are far easier and elegant/legitimate means available. To people who can mount ddos attacks, I suspect the relevant servers mentioned here are nowhere to be seen on their radars.

On the other hand, for folks like Snowden, they might need additional protection, see http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/edward-snowden-favorite-security-tools,news-51714.html.

Cheers!

 

[pabloescaban]

I know you are just asking a question, but I think there are some misconceptions in your question, and also in comments by others above what ISPs do, and the effectiveness of vpn.

ISPs know, but do not need to know what you are streaming to block streams/sites. If you are in uk and you do not believe me, and if you have no circumventing scheme in place, all you need to do is to enter http://putlocker.co into your browser and see what you get.

The first way an ISP can block sites, is simply to modify a library entry in their DNS server. When you enter a web address (either as a url or ip address), you are typically asking your ISP to route your request to the target. So all they need to do, is to direct such entries to the page at http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk/ you likely just saw.

Think about it, if you can create a free account here and elsewhere to get, say an iptv sub or free trial in 5 minutes, so can an ISP. All the ISP then needs to do is to include the relevant addresses in the banned list in their library, either at 3pm for 2 hours for certain sites, or forever.

If DNS filtering is the only thing an ISP does, it might be possible to circumvent it by using a public/alternative DNS server, and/or proxies. However DNS block is not all that an ISP or government institution etc. can do. You might already have a browser add-on or software on your device that suffers "DNS leak". Packet sniffing, e.g., can also be deployed, because the same live or movie stream (perhaps without a time-based watermark legitimate providers have introduced in theirs) may be duplicated and sold/distributed by "resellers" - if one such stream can be identified, so can all the streams/sites with duplicates.

However, packet sniffing only works if a stream is not encrypted. Here is where vpn comes in - when you are using vpn, not only would you not be using your ISP's DNS server, data would also be travelling in a secured tunnel between the machine you have vpn on (e.g. your vpn router) and your vpn provider (which has their own infrastructure, and can be in Timbuktu). With vpn, your ISP has zero visibility of your data consumption except quantity because data in the virtual tunnel is encrypted, hopefully with a strong protocol and key, that will take even the nsa significant time to decrypt.

This is why certain governments/ministers are actioning/musing a ban on or "registering" vpn's...

I do not know for sure, but I would take "ddos attacks on servers" being the reason for relevant sites' relevant inaccessibility with a large lump of salt, if only because there are far easier and elegant/legitimate means available. To people who can mount ddos attacks, I suspect the relevant servers mentioned here are nowhere to be seen on their radars.

On the other hand, for folks like Snowden, they might need additional protection, see http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/edward-snowden-favorite-security-tools,news-51714.html.

Cheers!

good read, but the fact remains, why would isp's block you from watching football but not golf, rugby league, cricket, movies etc etc etc.

 

[Jacksoft]

I`ve 2 subs...i`m with Virmin..one go`s off when footballs on the other doesn`t.
They are hitting Portals at present,but are looking for more ways to stop us.

 

[Speedygonzal]

good read, but the fact remains, why would isp's block you from watching football but not golf, rugby league, cricket, movies etc etc etc.

Why? isn't the title of this thread a good enough reason? What is instructive, is how long it took.

Many movie and other streams have been blocked, for some time.

Cheers!

 

[grog68]

I`ve 2 subs...i`m with Virmin..one go`s off when footballs on the other doesn`t.
They are hitting Portals at present,but are looking for more ways to stop us.

Are you sure it's not just the provider being overloaded, my first sat provider had that issue whenever there was a big football match on the server would crash due to being overloaded.

good read, but the fact remains, why would isp's block you from watching football but not golf, rugby league, cricket, movies etc etc etc.

They do block others, take Movies123 for example, kept going down now and then reappearing?

 

[Jacksoft]

well..it`s not just football that go`s off,the all sub or Portal is not reachable..but my other stays on.

 

[digidood]

i use a vpn router so it dont affect me....if yous guys are clever yous will all invest in one to.[emoji106]

What did you get? I use pia vpn and im looking for one with a wide wifi range.

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[jameopike]

Going back to an earlier thread, tomshardware will provide hours of reading about vpn's, as linked at tomshardware you can download Tor, it's an anonymising network (covers your IP).
I haven't used tomshardware for years but his site is a great link for newbs.

 

[pabloescaban]

Are you sure it's not just the provider being overloaded, my first sat provider had that issue whenever there was a big football match on the server would crash due to being overloaded.



They do block others, take Movies123 for example, kept going down now and then reappearing?

I don't mean in that sense, I meant when footy went off at weekend I tried the IPTV via vlc media player and watched half a dozen other channels, various sports, few adult(!) one or two docc channels, they all played perfectly well but when prem league or main event was selected it was unwatchable, surely if it was a ddos attack on server, the entire server, or at least all the sports channels would have been knackered?

 

[jameopike]

Normally you will loose connection to the vpn and it will restart after a few seconds or minutes. I don't understand how people are saying only sports channels are being affected.

I agree with pablo it just doesn't make sense.

 

[pabloescaban]

It makes perfect sense when you realise that it's nothing to do with isp's and the only ddos attacks they're getting is by their own users, everyone trying to watch the same thing at the same time

 

[jameopike]

Put simply, to much traffic over the bandwidth.

 

[jonny2404]

What I'd like to know is, if the isp knew what you were downloading (this is what streaming is - data download, nothing more or less) and they could put a stop on it, how does anyone anywhere in the world ever manage to download illegal stuff? - I think we all know this is a crock of shite.
Also, if you have amazon prime or any one of dozens of other streaming services legitimately purchased in the UK, dothey can't-es it suddenly become unusable every Saturday and Sunday when football's on? - does it bollocks - you can stream Shawshank Redemption on Sunday as soon as Man Utd kick off and watch it uninterrrupted for 3 hours because you are watching it via your isp and they aren't blocking downloads at peak times, if they were, you wouldn't see 75% of it.
Looking at data only, how can any isp know whether you are watching Shawshank Redemption or MUFC V AVFC? - they can't, so don't waste money on VPN's and such likes

That's rubbish. My channels were blocked Sunday when the football started and as soon as I turned my vpn on...boom, all channels back! They aren't blocking your internet they are blocking IPTV at the source. When you connect via a vpn the server routing you to the main IPTV server reports your ip as a non uk one. Hence you don't get blocked


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[pabloescaban]

That's rubbish. My channels were blocked Sunday when the football started and as soon as I turned my vpn on...boom, all channels back! They aren't blocking your internet they are blocking IPTV at the source. When you connect via a vpn the server routing you to the main IPTV server reports your ip as a non uk one. Hence you don't get blocked


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I see, my football channel went off, premier league and main event as it was live on both. the other sports channels were fine though.
so were the movies, doccs, adult, ent, intermnational, kids.
So if they were blocking iptv at source, how come it was only the football channel affected?

 

[gav28uk]

I guess they are blocking via IP Address and port, wouldn't it be funny for the IPTV providers to play a game with Sky and update their own server details with Sky's details and instead of blocking the IPTV provider they blocked the Sky WWW site themselves :-) Yeah I realise it would still achieve the same thing, IPTV streaming would stop, but hey, so would Sky's site :-) lol!

 

[bazcfc1]

I guess they are blocking via IP Address and port, wouldn't it be funny for the IPTV providers to play a game with Sky and update their own server details with Sky's details and instead of blocking the IPTV provider they blocked the Sky WWW site themselves :) Yeah I realise it would still achieve the same thing, IPTV streaming would stop, but hey, so would Sky's site :) lol!

Some brain box ought to try it just for the sake of it would be well funny it would be all over news as a cyber attack in the words of Bobby Brown 2 can play them games lol

 

[Speedygonzal]

My channels were blocked Sunday when the football started and as soon as I turned my vpn on...boom, all channels back! They aren't blocking your internet they are blocking IPTV at the source. When you connect via a vpn the server routing you to the main IPTV server reports your ip as a non uk one. Hence you don't get blocked

I don't think that is the case, since your iptv sub is selling you (presumably a uk customer) why would they want to block your uk ip.

If you look at the difference between accessing that same iptv source without vpn and with vpn, the only difference is when without you are trying to reach it via your isp, while with vpn it is your vpn provider which was connecting you to that same source - if the latter works but not the former, then the logical explanation is that it was your isp that was blocking you accessing your iptv.

I see, my football channel went off, premier league and main event as it was live on both. the other sports channels were fine though. so were the movies, doccs, adult, ent, intermnational, kids.
So if they were blocking iptv at source, how come it was only the football channel affected?

The phenomenon you explain, can happen in various different scenarios:
1) if your iptv source failed to secure a decent PL feed - that will give rise to your iptv being able to stream you everything except PL - e.g. it can happen if your iptv source was blocked, e.g. by their ISP, for accessing an external PL stream which they were going to resell to you, or
2) the PL feed to your iptv source was iffy for other reasons (e.g. massively overloaded) or
3) your iptv server capacity for streaming PL to you was iffy for other reasons (e.g. massively overloaded)

What is clear is if the same iptv provider (with a single, defined ip address/url) can deliver you some streams but not the other, then it is unlikely that your isp is blocking your access to that provider (yet), which implies having vpn or not would have made no difference to you (yet).

As you can see, none of the above requires ddos attack to happen.